Listen now | Jon & Ollie discuss their Tier 1 organizations in the NFL, evaluating front offices on draft success, free agency, trades, synergy amongst staff, culture, era navigation, cap management & much more
“Two sources at the University of North Carolina tell me that there has been a decision that was made last week by the higher-ups inside the athletic department that had hired Bill Belichick to be the highest paid public employee — not just coach in the state of North Carolina at $10 million a year — and that decision was that Jordon Hudson, she is no longer allowed in the football building,” Torre said. “She is not allowed on the football field.” Quote: ‘Don’t think you’ll be hearing much from Jordon moving forward.'”
As a Ravens fan, spot on guys. There's a tightness in management that a) makes their floor really high and b) limits their ceiling. This might be more the case with DeCosta as GM as opposed to Ozzie? It seems like Ozzie would have taken advantage of Lamar faster than DeCosta did.
(Lamar-and Hurst-were in Ozzie's last draft class (meaning Ozzie drafted Hurst when every fan was wondering why the hell the team was passing on drafting Derwin James. (Imagine getting Lamar and James and a couple years later Roquan Smith.) Also their trade up to get Lamar was with the Eagles. Good things can come to those who flirt with the Eagles.)
On a deeper level, the outing of Justin Tucker could have easily happened to Terrell Suggs. It was an open secret, Suggs' off field anger issues, team management certainly knew, fans had a clue much more than they did with Tucker, but nothing came of it as I guess we needed a full media expose to happen. Management, including Harbaugh, loves their players and to some degree that is good. Where that support becomes self-serving is an issue. And I got to think that other teams have these issues but the Ravens keep getting exposed. There's another substack by a Ravens fans, " Rooting guide for when your team drafts an alleged rapist" https://zipdriveanddish.substack.com/p/rooting-guide-for-when-your-team
Yeah, I almost brought up Suggs on the show. Obviously the Chiefs have had these issues come up a ton too. So there is somewhere where strong culture and unity and support has to give way to what's right, imo. But obviously these organizations push that line far beyond where we would say it should be
I have a critique on the (mild) Bucs critique that they haven’t taken the big swing.
If that’s the criticism, it has to be followed by what swing they should have taken and didn’t. I’m not sure what more they could have been expected to do given the situations they’ve found themselves in.
When they needed a QB after Brady, what were their choices? Rodgers? Russ? I seem to remember someone advocating for Jacoby Brissett and a team reset for a year or two. (I suppose they could have ended up with Stroud, but what would the team around him have looked like?)
Second challenge would be: Brady. Cmon. They took the biggest swing of them all and won a Lombardi.
I don’t think they’re over-culturing, I think they’re playing the hand they’re dealt pretty well.
I think it was more of a "this is the thing to watch for moving forward" like with the Lions, more than a criticism of what they've done in the past. Just something we're keeping an eye on. This year they need to be aggressive up to the trade deadline. Can they get into Jalen Ramsey conversations? Things like that
I am a Bucs fan, but I have to admit the Tier 1 rankings does feel a little aggressive. Their record the last 3 years when you include the playoffs is 28-27. The Steelers record is 29-24. The difference is the Bucs have gotten 3 home playoff games while the Steelers have 0. The reason for that is simply the Steelers are in a division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson and the Bucs are in a division with Terry Fontenot the ghost of Mickey Loomis and David Tepper.
Let me be clear I’m happy with the Bucs Front office think they are clearly doing a good job but Tier 2 feels right. Licht has been with the Bucs for 11 years. They have made the conference championship 1 time, now thank goodness they won the title that one time but that’s it. In that time frame 22 franchises have made at least 1 final 4. Including teams like the Jags, titans, panthers, falcons.
There are still other flaws as well, they don’t give out early extensions like smart front offices such as the eagles do which always look good in retrospect. They wait til the last possible moment and then end up paying sticker price. There is absolutely no reason right now Luke Goedecke shouldn’t have been extended. Plus I still believe they have pretty clear bottom tier ownership.
Feel like they are being given benefit of the doubt in large part due to the ineptitude from the other teams in their division. None of which have even grabbed a wild card spot in years. Would think we need to see another conference championship birth before putting them into that elite tier.
Love these pods guys, thanks for keeping us entertained in the offseason!
Still need a bonus "Ollie monologues about Belichick and his muse" ep
“Two sources at the University of North Carolina tell me that there has been a decision that was made last week by the higher-ups inside the athletic department that had hired Bill Belichick to be the highest paid public employee — not just coach in the state of North Carolina at $10 million a year — and that decision was that Jordon Hudson, she is no longer allowed in the football building,” Torre said. “She is not allowed on the football field.” Quote: ‘Don’t think you’ll be hearing much from Jordon moving forward.'”
COME ON OLLIE
As a Ravens fan, spot on guys. There's a tightness in management that a) makes their floor really high and b) limits their ceiling. This might be more the case with DeCosta as GM as opposed to Ozzie? It seems like Ozzie would have taken advantage of Lamar faster than DeCosta did.
(Lamar-and Hurst-were in Ozzie's last draft class (meaning Ozzie drafted Hurst when every fan was wondering why the hell the team was passing on drafting Derwin James. (Imagine getting Lamar and James and a couple years later Roquan Smith.) Also their trade up to get Lamar was with the Eagles. Good things can come to those who flirt with the Eagles.)
On a deeper level, the outing of Justin Tucker could have easily happened to Terrell Suggs. It was an open secret, Suggs' off field anger issues, team management certainly knew, fans had a clue much more than they did with Tucker, but nothing came of it as I guess we needed a full media expose to happen. Management, including Harbaugh, loves their players and to some degree that is good. Where that support becomes self-serving is an issue. And I got to think that other teams have these issues but the Ravens keep getting exposed. There's another substack by a Ravens fans, " Rooting guide for when your team drafts an alleged rapist" https://zipdriveanddish.substack.com/p/rooting-guide-for-when-your-team
Yeah, I almost brought up Suggs on the show. Obviously the Chiefs have had these issues come up a ton too. So there is somewhere where strong culture and unity and support has to give way to what's right, imo. But obviously these organizations push that line far beyond where we would say it should be
You avoided the 6 hour pod by breaking it into 5 parts! 😂 LOVE IT!
"... the Falcons, who I'm sure we'll be talking about in a couple days." 🤣
I have a critique on the (mild) Bucs critique that they haven’t taken the big swing.
If that’s the criticism, it has to be followed by what swing they should have taken and didn’t. I’m not sure what more they could have been expected to do given the situations they’ve found themselves in.
When they needed a QB after Brady, what were their choices? Rodgers? Russ? I seem to remember someone advocating for Jacoby Brissett and a team reset for a year or two. (I suppose they could have ended up with Stroud, but what would the team around him have looked like?)
Second challenge would be: Brady. Cmon. They took the biggest swing of them all and won a Lombardi.
I don’t think they’re over-culturing, I think they’re playing the hand they’re dealt pretty well.
I think it was more of a "this is the thing to watch for moving forward" like with the Lions, more than a criticism of what they've done in the past. Just something we're keeping an eye on. This year they need to be aggressive up to the trade deadline. Can they get into Jalen Ramsey conversations? Things like that
And you think Licht would pull off a Jalen Ramsey trade taking on the contract and having to give up capital for him?
I don’t think he will, no. I do think Ramsey would help a ton on the field though
I am a Bucs fan, but I have to admit the Tier 1 rankings does feel a little aggressive. Their record the last 3 years when you include the playoffs is 28-27. The Steelers record is 29-24. The difference is the Bucs have gotten 3 home playoff games while the Steelers have 0. The reason for that is simply the Steelers are in a division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson and the Bucs are in a division with Terry Fontenot the ghost of Mickey Loomis and David Tepper.
Let me be clear I’m happy with the Bucs Front office think they are clearly doing a good job but Tier 2 feels right. Licht has been with the Bucs for 11 years. They have made the conference championship 1 time, now thank goodness they won the title that one time but that’s it. In that time frame 22 franchises have made at least 1 final 4. Including teams like the Jags, titans, panthers, falcons.
There are still other flaws as well, they don’t give out early extensions like smart front offices such as the eagles do which always look good in retrospect. They wait til the last possible moment and then end up paying sticker price. There is absolutely no reason right now Luke Goedecke shouldn’t have been extended. Plus I still believe they have pretty clear bottom tier ownership.
Feel like they are being given benefit of the doubt in large part due to the ineptitude from the other teams in their division. None of which have even grabbed a wild card spot in years. Would think we need to see another conference championship birth before putting them into that elite tier.
Love these pods guys, thanks for keeping us entertained in the offseason!